Minutes of the Asociation for 1998
MINUTES OF MEETING
held at IEI 22 Clyde Road on 18 February1998
IN ATTENDANCE:
T. McCarthy, (CHAIRMAN ), K. CAFFREY , K. CASHEN, M Collins,C. CORMICAN, P FORKAN, T.GLEESON, M Hanly, , F Kerrane , v Maguire,G Malone, C MCCONN, T McDonald, E. McGuire, V MULHERN, C. MURPHY, S. MURPHY,D. O’CEILLEACHAIR, M. RAFTERY,
D. TREaNOR, M WalsH.
APOLOGIES: S. McDermot, D O’Mahoney, M fitzSimmons, S Grogan, J O’Shaughnassy
1. Minutes
The minutes of meeting of 2/12/98 were adopted by the meeting ;
Proposed - D
Traenor, seconded T Gleeson
2. Matters arising
None
3. Correspondance:
Letter from CFO Fitzsimmons regarding his appointment to
the Fire Services Council Letter from CFO Fitzsimmons regarding the use of the
term ‘Chief Fire Officer’ by a Mr McGuinness at a passing out
ceremony at The Garda Training College.
Sec. to write to Garda Commissioner.
4. Rostered Senior Fire Officer.
Roscommon - no back-pay, CFO to pursue through Co. Engineer and local Union
Laois - not implemented, ACFO vacant for 18 months
G Malone sought guidance on question of ‘suitably trained’-- M Collins suggested each L.A. use ‘Section 26’ Plan to define it.
The two-year review is due in May .
Sec. to circulate Questionnaire regarding
operation of rostering.
5. Regional communications
East – Separate ambulance and fire systems operating. M Hanly expressed concern
re: whether system is meeting ‘user requirements’. N.Sweeny (Co. Manager Offaly) is new Chairman.
West -- Awaiting approval from DoELG to go to tender for hardware, software & communication equipment.
Munster G
Malone expressed concern regarding user requirements not being met, i.e. no
redundancy in MG4 box and no wide area paging.
6. Building regulations
Not all CFO’s had seen new document. P Forkan outlined the main changes.
M Hanley drew attention to the new register which suggested to him that all aspects of Building Control should be handled in one office e.g. the Fire office - possibly under an additional ACFO.
This view to be expressed when the Executive meets the City &County Engineers on March 6th.
7. Review of Retained Fire Service
M Hanly informed meeting that document, which had been
circulated to Union but not to L.A.s, was not well received by fire-fighters.
He thought some aspects might be agreed and the rest referred to the
Labour Relations Committee. Occupational
Health had been de-coupled from this issue.
Discussion ensued on the contents of the document.
Recruitment difficulties were being experienced all over the country.
8. Programme for change
M Hanly to represent all Senior Fire Officers as part of
the IMPACT delegation to meet LGSMB. Chairman
said that the proceedings of a “National Seminar on Strategic Policy
Committees (5th Feb.) ” had been circulated to each L A and was worth reading.
9. Uniforms for the Fire Service
A sub-committee of M Collins, P Forkan, F Kerrane, M Walsh
and T McCarthy (convenor) was established to examine the position and make a
recommendation to the next meeting
10 Unified Vocational Body
The proposed constitution, which had previously been
circulated, met with general approval. A
response was awaited from the two other groups.
11. Fire Service Council training programme
The following points were raised:
- lack of BA Instructor Course
- need for refresher on operational matters for Senior Officers
- concern at Senior Officer participation on Fire-fighter recruit / BA and Junior Officer courses
- more notice
e.g. 6 months, required of the annual programme.
12 Any other Business
The chairman extended the Associations sympathy to the family of the recently deceased Ml Flanagan ACFO Co. Meath.
M Hanly informed the meeting that P Costello was working with Dept. Of Education on fire safety aspects of curriculum development. A sub-committee consisting of
M Raftery(convenor), K Cormican, & T Gleeson was established to examine the proposed text - to report to next meeting.
F Kerrane said that he was presenting a paper on forest fire-fighting to CTIF in Portugal in the autumn.
G Malone raised the question of defective building design/construction...pursuit by Enforcement Notice and/or High Court recommended.
F Kerrane recommended that members get copy of “A Charter for Meaningful Local Government”.
Next meeting May.
Signed Date
-----------------------------
top ==========================================================
MINUTES OF MEETING
held at Tullamore on 8 May 1998
IN ATTENDANCE:
T. McCarthy, (CHAIRMAN ), K. CAFFREY , K. CASHEN, M Collins, M fitzSimmons, P FORKAN, T.GLEESON, M Hanly, S Grogan, F Kerrane , E. MaGuire, G Malone, S. McDermot , V MULHERN, C. MURPHY, S. MURPHY, D. O’CEILLEACHAIR, D.O’Mahony, M. RAFTERY, O.O’Loughlin, M.Stack,,D. TREaNOR.
APOLOGIES: -
M.Walsh
1. Minutes
The minutes of meeting of 18/2/98 were adopted by the meeting ;
Proposed - D
Traenor, seconded M Raftery.
2. Matters arising FROM the Minutes -
Chairman reported on a meeting between the Executive and
Co.& City Engineers.
3. Correspondance:
Acknowledgement letter from Garda Commissioner regarding use of ‘Chief Fire Officer’ by a Mr McGuinness. Sec to write to The Garda Training College in Templemore offering the services of the Association in the area of Garda recruit instruction.
Letter from ‘An Comhairle Leabharlanna’ - Sec. to seek
clarification
4. Conference 1998
D O’Ceilleachoir was congratulated on running an
excellent conference despite loosing a speaker at a late stage. The resultant extra time for the Trade Show was agreed to be
beneficial.
5. Conference 1999
M Hanley said that K. Cormican had agreed to host it in
Kilkenny and that Westmeath would host it in 2000
6. Sub-committee reports
Camp Munster - O. O’Loughlin -Final version for Cork by end of year, other Munster authorities to follow.
Camp West - S Murphy -Tenders for Comms/Mobs sought
Camp East - M.Fitsimmons - No news
‘Curriculum Development’ - M Raftery - No progress
Uniforms - T.McCarthy - one submission received,
sub-committee to reconvene. It was
agreed that CFOA should come to a conclusion on the matter, irrespective of
existing DoE guidelines. No
interest was expressed in the idea of a Dress Uniform.
7. Rostered Senior Fire Officer.
The two-year review due to commence with a meeting with
LGMSB on May 13th .
8. Review of Retained Fire Service
The LGMSB had referred the matter to the Labour Relations
Committee.
9. Programme for change
M Hanly reported that the Working Party had met and that he
was hopeful of progress towards his submission (Sec. to circulate copy).
10 Unified Vocational Body
No developments. Needs
to be pushed with other two groups
11 Any other Business
It was pointed out that ‘Membership of IFE’ did not automatically lead to Chartered Engineer status - it was incidental to the requirements.
Chairman and Sec. had met M. Flynn ( H.S.A.) who was carrying out a Review of Dangerous Substances Regulations with particular reference to the Kerbside Stations. He was proposing to issue guidelines to licensing authorities on a ‘risk assessment’ approach to dealing with them after 1999. Diverse views were expressed on the appropriateness of this approach. It was agreed that a standard of safety ‘approximating’ to that required under the Regulations should be maintained.
M. Fitsimmons invited comment on the recently circulated ‘Senior Officer’ and ‘Firefighter’ Handbooks.
It was agreed not to become involved with the production of a new ‘Fire Officers’ magazine but perhaps to make better use of the IFE one, as a forum for debate, publishing of conference papers, etc.
Signed Date
----------------------------- --------------
================================================
MINUTES OF CFOA MEETING HELD
at IEI Headquarters on 1st July 1998
IN ATTENDANCE:
T. MCCARTHY (CHAIRMAN), S. MCDERMOTT, C. CORMICAN, M. WALSH, D. O’CEILLEACHAIR, S. GROGAN, K. CASHIN, M. HANLY, S. MURPHY, E. MAGUIRE, G. MALONE, K. CAFFREY, J. DUNPHY, V. MAGUIRE, C. MCCONN, F. KERRANE, M. RAFTERY.
APOLOGIES:
C. MURPHY (SECRETARY). In the absence of C. Murphy, M. Raftery took the Minutes of
the Meeting.
1. MINUTES
The minutes of the meeting of 8/5/1998 held in Tullamore were adopted by the meeting:
Proposed - K. Caffrey, seconded - D. O’Ceilleachair.
Jim Dunphy was elected as a member to the Chief Fire Officers Association as Chief Fire Officer of Wicklow.
Proposed - M. Walsh, seconded - G. Malone.
2. MATTERS ARISING - CONFERENCE 1998
C. Cormican declined the offer of the Annual Conference in 1999. After some discussion it was decided that the Executive would consider the matter again.
Query from D. Treanor re. LPG Tanks and distance to Hazardous Materials
IS 3216 was amended in 1989 and the amendment includes a revised table on
distance to Hazardous Materials. Members
should get the copy of the amendment from NSAI.
Meeting noted that the Friends of the Irish Environment had sent a letter
to all Chief Fire Officers. Some
replied through the in Administrative Sections. Members were warned that the Friends of the Irish Environment
would use variations in the reply to embarrass the Fire Officers.
Summer Course for European Fire Officers being hosted by Dublin
Corporation, details of the course
were circulated at the meeting to be held in October 1998.
3. CORRESPONDANCE
None.
4. SUB-COMMITTEE REPORTS
Munster/Cork project is on going. Cork
County have CP Bell for Interim
System mobilizing 14 Stations through radio with a backup Eirecell Alerters to
Officers. The average cost is £6.50
per call as apposed to £100 per call in the Mid-West System.
Cork also noted problems with some Sigma alertors when the on-off button
had been removed. West Tenders for communication system with the DoE for
approval. The East tenders for
“links” have been advertised. M.
Walsh noted that the Interim System was outdated and would be difficult to
support. There was also operational
problems with Eastern Health Board and the Fire Brigade.
There was an overall discussion on the Communication System and
mobilisation systems in Munster.
Curriculum Development - M. Raftery.
A draft letter to the National Safety Council setting out the Chief Fire Officers position on this proposed change of Curriculum was adopted by the meeting :
Proposed - M. Hanly, seconded - C. Cormican.
The Secretary to send copy of the letter to National Safety Council and
Secretary of the Department of Education.
Uniforms for the Fire Service.
Comments have been received by the Sub-committee. After overall discussion about the uniforms and it was decided to defer this item to the next meeting where hopefully a sample of the uniform, a sample of the navy blazer and slacks would be available to the meeting to make final decisions. It was noted that the cost of the new uniforms is in the order of £1,350.
5. ROSTERED SENIOR OFFICERS
A proposed meeting between the Management Services Board and IMPACT on
the 18/06/1998, was cancelled due to one Member of the Management side not being
available. In view of the changes
and ongoing discussions on Better Local Government it was felt that this issue
should be left on the back burner for the moment.
6. REVIEW OF RETAINED FIRE SERVICE
Due to change in the Staff side where P. Clarke has retired and M. Merrigan has taken over the control of SIPTU negotiations, it was decided to defer the issues to the Labour Relations Commission, but now the Union has undertaken to respond on the National Document and the Working Party will meet again in October to discuss their response and ultimately items of disagreement will be referred to the Labour Relations Commission for final agreement.
It was noted that there are Local Problems in some Authorities with
recruitment of Fire Fighters, local problems with medicals and the
implementation of the Health Schemes in some counties.
An overall review of of the counties found that some of the problems were
due to non co-operation from the Unions, some failure of Fire Authorities to
implement the system or partial implementing the system - not in full compliance with the guidelines.
Civil Defence
A copy of a letter was read to the meeting which had been sent by the Civil Defence School to the County Managers on the role of Civil Defence as part of Programme 2000 i.e. as a back up to the Fire Service and Forest Fighting. There was discussion on this. It was noted that the Fire Service is the first line of response of the Local Authority to fires and any Civil Defence role will have to be under the authority of the Chief Fire Officer.
Better Local Government - A Programme for Change.
Chairman put forward a document on the policy of the Fire Service to the members. Further documentation has been issued by the Department of Environment on SPC’s in March 1998 in setting policies for Local Authorities. M. Hanly updated the meeting on the present position re. the Hedermann O’Brien Document and subsequent meetings on the management side and the staff side. There will be directors of services in all the counties, in the small counties there will be two to three, in the medium counties three to four and in the large counties four to five. In addition there will be one post of Senior Engineer as a minimum. Ultimately the Managers see all Directors of Services interchangeable. In view of the ongoing discussions it was agreed that a letter should be sent to IMPACT setting out the Chief Fire Officers requirements, requesting IMPACT to set up a National Negotiation for the Chief Fire Officer on the Programme for Change. The letter was adopted by the meeting.
Proposed - S. Murphy, seconded - S. Grogan, and Hon Sec. is
to send to Mr. Al Butler, IMPACT and a copy of the letter sent to each Chief
Fire Officer.
There was some general discussion on the new Local Government Bill in relation to the changes in the recruitment of Technical Officers to the Local Authority.
7.
BUILDING REGULATIONS
On review of the Building Regulations it was found that 8 counties have now dedicated responsibility for all Building Regulations in addition to Part B to the Fire Section i.e. Clare, Westmeath, Tipperary N.R., Cork, Louth, Donegal, Waterford County and possibly Tipperary S.R. It was also noted that the Local Government Computer Services Board are devising a computer system and a circular may be issued to all Local Authorities in this regard. It was also noted that Micro
Design in Cork were also designing a system.
It is unclear if these systems will be compatible, particularly with the
new INGRESS database as the corporate database for Local Authorities.
8.
ANY OTHER BUSINESS
1. The Chairman informed the meeting that the Director General, Health and Safety Authority, had requested a meeting with a cross section of Chief Fire Officers for the purpose of discussing how to deal with ‘1999’ kerbside petrol stations - the 14th, and 16th of July were the suggested dates. It was agreed that the Executive should meet the Director General of HSA.
2. F. Kerrane commented on
the effect of Traffic Calming measures around the country.
These have a detrimental effect on the call out time on Local Fire
Brigades, it was particularly noted that some climbing lanes had been removed in
some roads in Donegal which had caused congestion and reduced the attendance
times of Fire Brigades. There was
also comments about the absence of cross overs on dual carraige ways and
motorways and the erection of crash barriers etc, outside Fire Station e.g. Cork
County Council. Secretary of CFOA
was requested to write a letter to National Roads Authority setting out the
CFO’s concerns about this, and requesting that any proposed changes to roads
should be referred to the local Chief Fire Officer for comment prior to
implementation.
3. It was noted that the
On-call allowance had increased by 2.5% from the 1st of April, and 2.25% from
the 1st of July.
4. S. Murphy noted that the full time Civil Defence Officer retired in Mayo and that he was informed that it was Department of Defence policy to appoint a Civil Defence Officer as a full-time position not a part-time one.
Signed:
______________________
Chairman top
=================================================================
At Green Isle Hotel,
29th. Sept. 1998
IN ATTENDANCE:
T. MCCARTHY (CHAIRMAN), C. MURPHY, S. MCDERMOTT, K. CORMICAN,
D. O’CEILLEACHAIR, K. CASHIN, M. HANLY, E. MAGUIRE, G.
MALONE, K. CAFFREY, J. DUNPHY, F. KERRANE, M. RAFTERY,M FITZIMMONS,
O.O’LOUGHLIN, D.TRAENOR, D.O’MAHONY, V. MULHERN, T.GLEESON, P.FORKAN.
APOLOGIES: M. WALSH, S. GROGAN S. MURPHY, J.O’SHAUGHNASSY, J.FLYNN.
1. MINUTES
The minutes of the meeting of 1/7/1998 were adopted by the meeting:
Proposed - D. O’Ceilleachair. Seconded - K Cormican,
2. Matters Arising
CONFERENCE
1999 – in the absence of any other proposal, the Chairman volunteered to host
it in Clonea, Co.Waterford.
3. Correspondence
Letter from CFO F.Kerrane in which he sought CFOA funding to attend (and present a paper) at CTIF 1998. It was agreed in this instance to allocate £500 and that a policy for such future expenditure should be drawn up.
Letter from H.S.A. seeking comments on new Draft Regulations for Petroleum Licensing (before 9th. October, 1998). Sec to: circulate to members seeking comment, convene sub-committee to collate and respond, inform H.S.A. that time allowed is insufficient, express interest in assisting with preparation of code of practice
4. Senior Fire Roster
M Hanly surveyed members on existing arrangements and circulated a draft letter from IMPACT to LGMSB, which was discussed and amended. He said that IMPACT expected to have the position of Co. Secretary and Asst. Co. Manager resolved in the near future and that he was promoting the idea of a establishing a working party to review the position of the lower engineering grades.
3. Civil Defence Review
The Chairman said that he was meeting C.D.Os on Oct. 7th
regarding his submission on the Dept. of Defence review.
A sub-committee consisting of himself and C.F.O.s who were C.D.O.s was
established to deal with the matter. Concern
was expressed regarding the use of C.D. by Coillte in lieu of the fire service.
The problem had been solved in Munster through the T.L.G.
4. Sub Committee Reports
CAMP Munster: - O.O’Loughlin – implementation programme on schedule. He queried the Cork Co. ‘cost-per-call’ figure. G Malone agreed to provide details.
CAMP West: - P.Forkan – contract awarded.
CAMP East: - M Hanly – Nothing to report.
Uniform – T. McCarthy – Total estimated cost of new uniform = £1400. Dissatisfaction with the design in all ranks. M. Fitzimmons to seek Fire Services Council review.
5. European Fire Officers Course.
It was agreed that it should be supported but final details
had not been circulated.
6. Any other Business.
M Hanly queried the use of ambulance personnel in R.T.A./Casualty Handling training. Chairman said that The Dublin F.B. First Responders Course was not accredited by anyone while the Ambulance Service Course was. M. Fitzimmons to request the F.S.C to provide course and handbook.
P. Forkan invited volunteers for a 2 day B.A. refresher and confirmed that he had been re-appointed to the B.R.A.B.
D.O’Mahony raised the issue of obtaining ‘address-of-caller’ from telecom. O.O’Loughlin said that the matter was being pursued through the CAMP Managers Ctte.
M.Hanly informed the meeting that a facilitator had been employed to progress the Review of the Retained Service and that the process would probably lead to the Labour Court. He advised that in the meantime no new local arrangements be made.
At the request of J.O ‘Shaughnassy the Chairman raised
the question of cab safety on fire fighting vehicles as there was a UN standard
which was higher than JCDD but was not required or permitted by the DoELG.
Next meeting Dec. 1st
Venue: LGMSB if possible or Civil Defence Headquarters.
Signed : ………………………. Date …..………..
Chairman top
=================================================================
At Civil Defence Hq,
1st Dec 1998
IN ATTENDANCE:
M.Fitzimmons (Chairman), C.Murphy, S.McDermott, K.Cormican,
T.McCarthy, D. O’Ceilleachoir, K. Cashin, M. Hanley, E. Maguire, G. Malone,
K.Caffrey, J.Dunphy,
F. Kerrane, M.Raftery, D.Traenor, V.Mulhearn, T.Gleeson, P.Forkan, M..Walsh,
S.Murphy, J.O’Shaughnassy, C.McConn,.
APOLOGIES: O.O’Loughlin M.Collins D.O’Mahony,
1. MINUTES
The minutes of the meeting of 29/9/1998 were adopted
Proposed - D.Traenor . Seconded - J.Dunphy
2. Matters Arising
T McCarthy confirmed that the Dublin fire brigade ‘First Responder’ course was not accredited in Ireland. After some discussion, it was agreed that recognition of a course by the National Ambulance Training Centre would be appropriate. Provision of guidance and/or training by the Fire Services Council was desirable. We need to examine whether/to what level training beyond first aid was necessary for firefighters, - sub–committee of T.McCarthy (convenor) T.Gleeson, K.Cormican, to examine and produce a report.
T.McCarthy confirmed that he had made a submission on Civil Defence review, suggesting that it be brought under the auspices of the CFO. A discussion ensued on also incorporating Building Control and Major Emergency Planning into the Service. It was felt that it was an opportune time (in view of likely re-structuring in L.A.s associated with Better Local Government) for each member to make a local submission on this basis – and to seek up-grading of the CFO post. M Raftery volunteered to carry out a survey of brigades resources and incomes.
M.Hanley reported that IMPACT had sought a meeting with the LGMSB for Fire Officers regarding Better Local Government …so far without success.
Chairman reported on meeting with H.S.A. re: proposed Regulations and Codes of Practice for licensing petrol stations.
Secretary received approval to correspond with members by E-mail (with a password attached)
3. Correspondence
Letter from Tom O’Donoghue re: Retired officers claim for retrospective rostering allowance – Sec. to confirm associations support.
Letter from Irish Marine Emergency Service – will be interested in meeting CFOA when and if appointed co-ordinator for inland water rescue.
Chairman’s proposed method of running the Association
{i.e. primarily by two-monthly Executive meetings (quorum of three), with own
discretion to react to urgent matters as they arose} was approved.
4. Senior Fire Roster
A claim had been submitted through IMPACT at a meeting with Management. No response yet.
The Chairman informed the meeting that a training
sub-committee of the Fire Services Council was looking at methods of opening a
route for progressing from Junior Officer to Senior Officer.
The sub-committee was concerned primarily with the support services
needed, as the principal arrangements were a matter for the LGMSB.
The meeting felt that B.Eng was the minimum desirable qualification to be
attained.
5. Fire Service Uniform
The Chairman said that the FSC were re-examining the issue and were talking to Dublin, Cork City and County. If those authorities agreed on a material, etc. it would make the uniform viable for the all authorities.
6. Conference 1999
T.McCarthy has Clonea Strand Hotel booked for 5th/6th May. Theme = ‘Civil Protection …Risk Analysis’. Conference 2000 to be in Limerick City
7. Liaison with Other Agencies
The Chairman reported on plans to meet:
- National Safety Council with a view to a more co-ordinated fire prevention campaign (Karl Cashin to pursue – all good ideas to be forwarded to him).
- Fire Services Council - it was reluctant to have a formal meeting with CFOA.
- Dept of Env. & LG – to have regular Spring and Autumn meetings with Officials
8. Any Other Business.
T.McCarthy on ‘Leonardo’ Committee on ‘Vocational Professional
Education’.
Retirement presentation to be made to V.Maguire at Conference.
Review of retained service – M.Hanly : meeting on 7th next, the main problem is one of remuneration and it will probably be referred to the Labour Court.
Next meeting: 4th March 1999.
Venue: Civil Defence Headquarters.
Signed : ………………………. Date …..………..
Chairman top
=====================================================================